Love your last paragraph sarah.

One thing that I hear regularly in rescue is people who say "I know Springers I've had them all my life I know exactly what they're like"
When the truth is give them a full working dog and they have absolutely no idea what we are talking about and soon realise that by no means is every Springer the same.

Fudds, J n T although both obviously from working lines are by no means one of these high powered working dogs that are being bred oh to often now, you give them a a good amount of physical and menmtal stimulation and so they cope really well with life while you work.

Perhaps now J has realised he has a prey drive it's time to start channelling that with some gun dog work to get his focus back, you'll love it just as much as him, you don't need to go to gundog classes there's lots of books that you can learn from, if you need any recommendations just shout, although i expect you've got a couple already and just need to refresh

Oh now its near that time again he will be out and about, I love his drive when he's sent to "seek, seek, seek" and does usually return to the whistle, he went missing cos his leg was stuck in his half check And was found throwing himself up a hill

Half check has now been doctered, his name tag is in the middle so he can't get his leg caught.

Bam is following him now but soon get bored when he can't keep up

I think the first thing you notice which sets a working bred springer (or wocker for that matter) apart from pet or show bred, is the sheer intensity they put into whatever it is they are doing.

This has been a very interesting topic. I am one of those very experienced with springers, but I never had a working one before. I am NOT very experienced with springers (now I am more so)

I have allways had springers. Springers of unknown origin. My la-*test*-('") charges are wonderful dogs. Two I got from a rescue and for the most part are quiet mellow fellas. I am guessing show bred. The third, I found at the local dog shelter and has been quite a handful. I have allways wondered about him as he came to me with great recall and sits to my left when he comes. Obvious to me he has had some training. Reading all this I am now quite convinced he was of fine hunting stock and is a runaway. He has all the characteristics of a great hunter. Boundless energy and incredible intensity!!

And now that my suspicions are confirmed by this topic, I must treat him differently than the others. The others are very happy with normal running and playing and are very content. For Chip we need to find a big field where he can run and run and run and I can work on his training so he is a more fulfilled dog. He deserves it.

Interesting thread - as hoomans of an ex police dog I would have to agree that some workers are never going to be happy as pure pets - Max lives to work and even though he cannot be a licensed search dog any longer, I still take him to work with me where he becomes a totally different being. He does come into the house but is not bothered about it - lives to go to work, wait in the car to go to work, work or rest in his kennel or car. Retiring him early was a very hard decision for his handler and the type of home he went to a major decision as he was never going to be happy just being a pet. He still does restricted gundog work (on wheels!) and searches regulary. His recent amazing recovery from serious injury I am sure, was assisted greatly by the fact I can still take him into his work (policing) environment which is his playground and gives him a reason to be - this is quality life for him not sitting by the fireside. All of ours are working types we think - all do something to channel their drive - Edgar is already showing great promise as a gundog as is Hilda (who is the same - manic to hunt/retrieve). Stanley was a city dog but now works (agility) numerous times a week and has great gundog obedience and whistle work. I work thru gundog training with all of them and each one appears to enjoy it immensely. Even GUH has become a different dog with a job to do (hunting for his food, toys etc). As such we have never had a problem with chewing, destruction, OCD etc. Although, if bored at work in the office Max will shadow chase until he gets a job to do.
Interesting thread - my over-riding view is if you have a working type it will need some sort of work to do or expect problems.

This is fascinating, and I must confess to feeling that we have been very lucky (and can't claim any credit!). When we bought Dexter we knew that his mother (a sprocker) was a pet, but an outdoor kennelled dog and given free run over the moors every day and that his father was a working springer.

Dexie's breeders ensured that we fully understood that he would be an active dog (they described their sprockers as "active all terrain dogs who live and love life to the max") and we deliberately chose the pup who liked his creature comforts best! Although he doesn't work, he has a couple of hour long runs a day with lots of retrieving tennis balls from undergrowth, rivers etc. and settles well at home. When he's old enough we intend to start agility with him to give him something else to think about and do.

Although I recognised the difference between show and working strain springers when we first started looking for a spaniel, I hadn't appreciated the spectrum of working drive. Thank heavens our desire for an active pet dog hasn't resulted in distress to or destruction of an innocent dog - that would be a terrible tragedy and would be so difficult to live with.

Thanks for such a thought provoking post.

Sandy your question has been on my mind since you first posted it, so I'll add my twopence worth too.

I think concluding from what has been said there are levels of working drive that some springers will most definitely have inherited through certain breeding lines. This makes it important for a prospective owner to get advice because some workers are easy in the home environment (I think we're blessed with two at least, not too sure of Jazz yet but she settles well ) and some are not.

Now when I was a boy we had a show type springer and believe it or not he was extremely driven and should have worked, he did not live successfully in the home and would have been excellent working. It was because of my experience of him that I resisted my families pleas to have a dog....and certainly not a springer!!

I would say that our three exist here happily as pets because we also accommodate their natural needs for exercise and mental stimulation. They do get 1 hours free off lead running with training in the morning and evening and on occasion lead walking to one of their fields. We are fortunate to have a few safe areas to use so we can vary interest etc.

I thought the link between springer and human behavioural problems was interesting, I am sure there must be varieties of levels and disorders just as there are in us humans so this also could make selecting a suitable dog difficult.

I value the experienced eye and knowledge of the good rescues and the part they play in homing the dogs that come their way.

This question has opened our eyes to the difficulties of the homing process.....how on earth do you find the right home for a really wired worker that no working home seems to want? Or the left overs from a litter from hard working lines?

I hope that there will continue to be many success stories of happily placed working springers.

Steve

Really good thoughts and comments on here

One thing which I have been thinking about is a possible link with docking (or not) of working strain springers. I just wonder if with less docked and many people wanting docked dogs for working, if it is the case that quite a number of 'working strain' but undocked dogs are being sort of sidelined into pet homes. I've seen quite a few adverts in the North Yorkshire area for undocked but working strain springers which I suspect will end up in pet homes - I'm sure some of these will be excellent homes but I do think it increases the chances of some them being in the wrong situation. Currently around here there are quite a few young springers/cockers/sprockers, frequently seen with mum's dropping of young school children but I don't see them down by the river or in my walking areas.

My springers - well Millie is as mad as a box of frogs. Clicks constantly from one thing to another and the attention span of a goldfish. She is from excellent working lines (very heavy on Rytex ). She'd not have made a good worker but is a very jumpy, excitable dog.

Hector I suspect has some show in him way back. Perhaps even harks back to when there was some Setter put into the breed for the leg length. Don't know his breeding but he's a very very steady (if worried) dog but wouldn't make a worker.

My previous spaniels - Rose the rescue - unknown breeding but a working build and a very steady dog. Tess - again a farm-bred working dog heavy with Rytex and not unlike Millie - Mad

I haven't had time to read through all the posts - lots to catch up on and my connection is on a go slow day today! Anyway, I have a very "hot" springer, who has an amazing drive. Around the house, she is calm. I sometimes think that some springers would do better in a kennel environment - not left alone for 24/7 but dogs can live in kennels very happily.

I think some dogs get too much stimulation around the house and this can cause problems. I also think that some dogs are not trained correctly. Ic can't count how many times people ahve said to me about Pippa, and how well trained she is. They have said it in a way that they feel it was easy. It wasn't. It took a lot of time and effort to train her and she is a dog I can take anywhere. Where there is scent, I do have to keep on top of her but I can tell her to walk to heel and she will.

These are working dogs that don't necessarily need a working life but...they do need stimulation. Some are more "hotter" than others but I do feel it is down to the owner and how they treat the dog.

Helen

Really interesting topic, and well worth reading the various comments. I must admit that it has also made me worry a bit, but it could just be paranoia!

Vinnie is from good working lines, Rytex and Badgercourt both show up once, and his pedigree is scattered with FT Ch. I got him because I fell in love with his big sister, and always said that if the timing was right I would love to have a puppy from the same parents. Well, I lost my collie in December, and I knew my friend was going to mate her two again... The rest, as they say, is history! Now, I know this may not be the best of reasons, but I know both of his parents well, as well as an older sibling from a previous mating. All three are agility dogs, although Mum isn't that fussed! They have fabulous temperaments and are all very trainable. His Dad has sired a number of litters, and the puppies are usually for working homes.

Vinnie is a very active dog, but he will settle. However, he is easily distracted so although he sometimes seems to be asleep he will be straight on his feet if you just blink! He's also responding really well to the small amount of training that I have done so far - using a clicker. On walks now his nose is down, and he seems to run everywhere!

Ultimately I hope to use him to beat a a local shoot, as well as train him for agility. I also want to look at field trial training. I knew when I got him that he would need a lot of mental stimulation as well as exercise. I have the advantage of retired parents that live right next door, and my husband has built a nice run. He is quite happy to go in there when we're all out, as well as overnight.

So that's my take on a worker as a pet - I think you need to know what you are doing, and be prepared to put the effort in.

I know I am very late coming to this thread, but I think it is one of the most useful threads I have seen on this list. Would it be possible to rename this thread and pin it in the "So you want think you want a Springer" section?

Just a quickie....

I have seen advertised up here on a few occasions springer pups for sale, docked, dew clawed etc. that are available to anyone it would seem, and I thought docking was only allowed for pups going to a working home Makes you wonder if some peeps are flouting the rules

Steve

Not illegal, just a loophole. All they need to do is to have the intention to sell them to a working home. They don't HAVE to go to a working home. As long as the breeder can produce all the paperwork, it's fine.

How many pups from a litter will go to a working home? In general? I wouldn't have said them all and at 3 days old, you aren't going to know which ones are going to the working home. Some breeders do stipulate you must work them (although you can lie!), but the majority want them to go to a good home.

Helen

I still think the taild ocking thing is out of order, if they can't go to working homes why chop there tails off and if these dogs are coming from good working stock they aren't suitable for everyday pet homes so the breeder if responsible should be doing everything in ther epower from preventing this from happening otherwise we're back to square one and that's rescue picking up the pieces with some very mentally disturbed dogs.

Steve I have persdonally rehomed several dogs, very young with docked tails that have clearly not gone to a potentially working home, more like single Mum wanting a family pet, yep that's responsible, NOT.

Hi only just read this thread and wanted to say thankyou for all this information. We have Poppy who is still only a baby really at 19 weeks, when we decided to get her we did have in mind a family pet that although we were keen to train would be just that a pet, (we were actually very nieve). Of course it soon dawned on us that she would need a lot of work! after finding this site, buying, reading all the books mentioned on here and after some careful thought we decided we would be able to give her the home she deserved and went to collect her.
We have been, I now realise so lucky, not only to have found this place but to also have had a dog that is quite chilled by the breeds standard. And I do feel slightly miffed that the breeder didnt point out all this to us before hand. Yes I know that it is your responsiblity also, but to have this many dogs suffering it just all seems so pointless.
thankfully she is not a hard working springer and is quite chilled out, although I am sure some of that must have something to do with the amount of time we spend with her training and walking but also mentally challenging her, as if we do have a slower day with her by evening she will be nutty! Once she is older we are thinking of working her to some degree although we are more keen at the moment to let her be a puppy and see how she takes to the gun dog training.
only yesterday a family friend who got a springer not long after Poppy came to us said she was having huge problems with hers as it is driving her potty. Im sure that it is the fact that the dog is bored rather than it being a bad dog, and I was thinking of offering it a home, although now I am not so sure. I just feel so sorry for the poor pup. I have tried to explain in a nice way some of the things that I know from this site but it is falling on deaf ears I fear and it is these sorts of owners that go into it blind and even when they realise what they need to do, dont do anything that are raising dogs that may end up in your care. Personally I think too many owners (springer or not) go into getting a dog blind and their should be some sort of course or lisence to own one.
Sorry for the ramble but I got there in the end