Can anyone confirm what I'm thinking
These 'working' dogs should therefore be trained only outside the house so that they are calm in the house.
Just not sure if I'm reading things right as I've done a lot of reading on site today and brain getting muddled.

That not quite what I personally meant Selina, my dogs do get training in the house as well, (mine arent ever kennelled).

I always warn peeps how much working line dogs need in regards exercise and stimulation, as in , they arent the dogs for you if once round the block is the amount of exercise you can manage. They do need to use their brains, and search work is a very good way to tap into their natural abilities, if they arent worked at all. But that isnt to say that they need constant stimulation, which I think is where Penel is coming from (although I could have got it wrong)... Imagine having a five year old child where you constantly charge from one to another stimulating, exciting activity at some stage in the festivities its all going to get too much , an overstimulated five year old child is about as much fun as an overstimulated springer/cocker lol! What I personally think, keeping to the same analogy (if I dont get lynched for likening dogs to kids lol) Is that you can do the exciting stimulating stuff, but you also have to end with a wind down, for me with the dogs after the running around and retrieving and flushing - its position work, we will practise downs , sits, stands , and stays, and then when we come home they flake out! much the same as the bedtime winding down story for the child (I just know this is a bad idea LOL, I do realise that dogs and kids are different creatures )

I start off all my training with pups and rescues in the house, and the end aim is for this all to come into play outside the house. I do concentrate on basics indoors, the bread and butter of training Maybe..... its a wee bit different with multi dog households. perhaps thats the answer lol!

Peeps with mad springers neeeeeeed more dogs pmsl!!

I think my main point was that simply being in a house is too much stimulation for some of these dogs - the actual physical-ness of being inside a house - noise of tv, kids, radio, the fact that there are "things" everywhere means that some of our dogs just can't switch off (another big plus for indoor kennels ie: crates).

Another example, Kongs for some dogs are relaxing - Lola will lie there with her eyes almost shut licking her kong - whereas Hattie will kick and throw it around the room like a loony - so its definitely not relaxing for Hattie, it is stimulating.

Penel I think its time you did some informative research, like you are doing here by getting other peoples opinions and stories and wrote to a doggy mag on this, seriously think you've got a big point and maybe people should be considering this when taking on one of these dogs, thats not to say that any of us aren't doing the best we can in a home environment but this might help us and others to understand our boys/girls and help enrich there lives further.

I've taken a lot of this on board and over the last few days have been working Ruf more on an outside basis and only doing calm things in the house and he appears to be calming down ever so slightly whilst in the house, even though he has eaten another one of his toy boxes but whats new there? Although I understand that he still has to do some work in the house and especially when people get new dogs and have to do early traning in the house environment there's a lot to be said for them having a calm place with little stimulation. I have also provided him with a second bed in the kitchen where there is no T.V etc and he has the choice of where he wants to be, mostly he chooses to be in the living room with us but he has been known to go to the 'calm' bed out of his choice.

I might well write to Dogs Today - the more feedback the better eh.

Interesting. Tilly often goes into the kitchen in the evening - we always joke about her saying "turn the tv down I'm trying to sleep" but seriously perhaps that is why she goes in the kitchen - its dark, and quiet. Also if we watch tv in bed, she gets very huffy and goes out into the hallway !

If you think back - a long long way back - to when dogs were selectively bred for certain purposes - I'm talking 14th century or before - our type of dogs were not kept as companions - they were all working - the companion type dogs were little pugs, pomeranians etc. Only the little favourites were kept inside with their noble masters and mistresses, the others would all have been outside in barns, stables etc. Only the swee-*test*-('") temperament of companion dogs would have been bred from - thus producing more sweet tempered pups - making these types of dogs even more suitable as companions ... I have a great book called Reigning Cats and Dogs, all about various royal families and their dogs - very interesting reading if you are into the roots of various breeds.

... too much thinking eh - I ought to stop !

Don't stop thinking, it's people like you that make improvements to health and wellbeing of these breeds,
if you get rich by book writing or similar on the subject don't forget us still tapping away on the site will you?

Yep, Bess does this too, and she is very sleepy in the evenings too, which is as nature intended. Before TV, computers and artificial lights were invented humans probably slept much better as light affects the release of the sleep hormone melatonin.

I imagine too, that dogs are affected by modern day stresses just as much as we are but in different ways. They may not have to juggle jobs and kids, learn new technology and have to choose from a hundred types of washing powder, but their sensitive senses of hearing and smell must be constantly bombarded to the point of overload. It's no wonder they want to find a quiet corner away from life sometimes.

me too

Its just a shame some poeple don't appreciate you more Penel ( not naming names ) but if people who owned breeds like ours actually took 5 mins to think about their breed a bit more then they would be able to make more improvements

Hehehe they'll get their come uppance - what goes around comes around eh !!! thanks for being open minded though you guys, and not just dismissing my thoughts as ridiculous !!!

It's interesting to hear other folks ideas and thoughts. I love a good, deep thinking debate.

Not ridiculous at all. It's all very thought provoking.

Helen

But where they? I always thought it was a case of the more the better - all under the one roof all generating heat and keeping the homestead warm - cows, dogs, pigs, the lot............. But ofcourse there would be plenty of dark corners for the curs to slink away to, infact as I type this, Bonnie is asleep under my desk in the darkest corner of the living room

Yup I agree - for the working type dogs - collies, spaniel-types I guess - but the other - companion type lap-dogs would have not been owned by the "peasants" I doubt - those types of dogs would have a) been useless to them as they didn't "work" and those types of dogs were only owned by the nobility - certainly the ones that were given as gifts by visiting foreign royalty etc !

I have to say I don't think putting a working type dog - like ours - outside in a kennel *on it's own* is what I was thinking about - but multiple dog households - where all the dogs would be kennelled together - or in a barn / stable - which is more what you are saying here Fran - isn't it ?!

I think kennelling a single dog would be rather mean - but kennelling them in pairs, or groups is far more natural.

yes I agree after all dogs are pack animals