Well, they say pride comes before a fall ... and I've just fallen hard!

Our absolutely fantastic Roly Dog has just shocked me .. after a fantastic walk, training session and playing with pals in the park this morning ....

Mild mannered Roly growled at me this morning when he had a toy he thought I was going to take away - I walked away and then called him to me and asked him to sit, which he got a biscuit for, while Ian took the toy away and put it away.

Then he got over excited playing a few hours later and was put in his bed to calm down (there was a bit of play type growling then too)

But, to my absolute horror ... just now, Roly laid on rug in living room as usual, in front of Ian who was in the armchair. I noticed that he wasn't relaxed - he was curled round but he head was up and he was looking at Ian who was watching telly. I commented on it and Ian spoke to him and got off the chair and fussed Roly who reacted totally out of character and made a horrible horrible snarly growly noise - Ian stood up, as he shouted "no" and Roly carried on making the noise .. so Ian went to grab the scruff of his neck at which point Roly usually knows Ian is boss and stops whatever he's being told off for .... but not tonight - he carried on with the snarly growling - he didn't snap and he didn't touch Ian with his teeth - I ran for the slip lead and Roly sat, in a kind of Mexican stand off with Ian, he stayed sitting while Ian slipped the lead over his head and then led him to his den - that's where the bad boy is now - we've covered the front of the den so he can't see us, although he's still in the living room so he knows we are here!

Flippin eck!

Ian thinks, with hindsight, that Roly might have had something in his mouth - so I'm going to read some of the past posts I remember on here on resource guarding as he will usually only give us something he has if we swap it for a biscuit or tennis ball.

The kids have gone to bed now so we'll let him out in a sec and see what he does.

It's just so out of character - scary!

If this is so out of character then I would think he may be feeling off colour.

Fred has been Mr Grumpt for the last 48 hrs which I put down to a) Chico and he hates his eye medication. Today I was stroking him and he flinched - I lifted his ear and it is red and raw inside!!

I would look carefully for any physical reason as well as checking as you say the resource guarding threads.

Agree with Sue, if its not like him, then it may be physical, a sore tummy say

Check him over, with no toys present

Thank you both for replying - that's what I love about this site .. there's always someone ready with sound advice. Even this time on a Saturday night!

Well, we let him out and he stuck to Ian like glue - followed him out to the kitchen, sat on his feet - I'd like to think he's saying sorry. He had a quick trot round the garden and earned a biscuit for sitting and then 'down' when he was asked.

He's now curled up on the sofa in his usual evening slot - having licked my hand over and over and over ... more apologies maybe!

We've gently explored him all over and no flinching or seeming worried about where we have been touching.

In the crate was a piece of crisp packet or something similar - he must have picked it up in the garden and had it in his mouth when Ian thought he had something. Ian picked it up and Roly followed him to the kitchen so Ian told him to 'leave it' and Roly got a biscuit for doing as he was told.

We'll keep a close eye on him .... having a good read up on some old threads here.

Thank you again

I would advise not trying to grab the scruff of his neck unless it is an absolute emergency. Grabbing scruffs is a good way to get bitten, especially by a dog that might be guarding something... you need to diffuse the situation not make it more tense so if something like this happens again, perhaps you could calmly in a gentle voice call him away from Ian, maybe into the garden etc....
I doubt he is apologising - not in the true sense - but he knows you are cross with him.

I'll back this one up, as a regular sufferer of this sort of behaviour we did this at first too. Sometimes I'd manage to get the collar and haul him away from the situation but many times I'd get it wrong and get bitten.

Now we always talk him down, unless someone else is at risk then ocasionally I do have to risk it myself.

Does sound odd he's suddenly started I'd definatley agree with the others and check the medical stuff first.

Can I just say....ain't this site great for good sound experienced advice

Hope he's back to normal for you

it most certainly is!!! i've definately had my fair share and benefited from it.

Well our boy is back to his usual self - we had a good read about resource guarding - as I'm convinced it was the bit of crisp packet he had in his mouth that set him off. It's as if he had sat there building himself up, watching Ian, waiting for him to notice!

So, we are concentrating more on the "leave it" command using treats when he does as he's asked and are hoping to build up to the point where he will give us something really really good by building his confidence that if he gives it to us then we give it back (if you see what I mean).

We are also not tolerating any play 'agression' with us either - and instead of putting him in his den we are instantly leaving the room and closing the door (so we don't have to touch him- he has caught onto that one quickly and we've noticed he's not opening his mouth at all now during play wheras before he would still try and catch our sleeves with his teeth.

We gave him a good going over and can't find any physical reason although it could have been a tummy ache etc that isn't easy to spot.

Well, serves me right for being complacent .. just goes to prove that training isn't something you ever stop doing to one degree or another!

Thanks everyone again for the words of advice

Ooh Nikki, that is scary, glad this clever lot had some good advice for you and things have started to calm down! I guess he's very much like a child, and he is -*test*-('")ing his boundaries!

xx

I would also think about totally ignoring him when he has something that he wants you to notice. If I pretend not to notice that Morris has OH's shoe in his mouth, he very quickly gets bored of it, and drops it - which is when I can say oh goooooood boy. I haven't ever once tried to chase him around and take stuff off him - and as a consequence he usually brings me the stuff he has taken, and drops it in my lap waiting for praise. Funnily enough I've never used treats either - just praise.
I play lots of tuggy games with appropriate toys with Morris, and if he ever gets OTT I just drop my end (and don't worry that I let him "win" ) and walk off.... try to remember your dog is still learning and keep really positive and happy - he wants to be your friend he doesn't do bad things on purpose- so it's up to you to guide him.

i totallty agree with Penel here. Ollie will always grab a shoe, usually of the person he is trying to get attention from and then he wil linger near you. We used to chase after him but we now ignore him and he does the same, either gets bored and brings it to us or just drops it.
With Ollie it is a big attention seeking thing and whilst sometimes its hard not to laugh ignoring him is the way to go.

Don't forget if you start to ignore a behaviour which has been rewarded in the past (rewarded from the dogs point of view, which is why he's kept on doing it) he may well appear to get worse before he gets better - because what he's always done to get attention no longer works, he thinks he has to do *more* of the same to get the result he wants, and it will take a while for him to learn that it no longer works.

Good luck, he's a lucky dog to have such a perceptive owner.

Ignoring is the only way and we are still trying this with Bam. The moment he thinks he's got something we really want back the game starts And he loves the game And its all very well, if we read it wrong when there are both of us to "catch" him but yes it took me 20 minutes to get someone elses ball off him the other day And yes I sat in the grass ignoring him, till he remembered

Then the other day he came running over with a gun and for that split second, I really thought it might be real Visions of Sam shooting his mummy It wasn't real and he was ignored and he then dropped it and got dutifully praised for "standing down"

Sam is a tough nut to crack because he gets sooo giddy, so we now make up for this with playing chase up the stairs, when he has nothing

so glad you've come to the bottom of his behaviour. i definately agree with others though about ignoring him. you could also try 'traiding' the thing that he's got for something you've got. i do this with sam sometimes and it works. you could also play with a toy by yourself, having a brilliant time with it, throwing it up in the air and stuff (neighbours will love ya!) and see if he drops what he's got to come and investigate. think its trial and error to see what works for you and your dog. but obviously you dont want to put yourself in any danger.

i agree with digger too, might get worse before it gets better, its called an 'exstinction burst'. good luck with him, sounds like you're on the right road