I work part time at the University of Chester and we have a staff discussion board where people can post items for sale, and ask for information on good plumbers etc.

Last week, a member of staff posted 2 working springer pups for sale. Here is the ad.

"We've got two gorgeous English Springer Spaniel puppies for sale. One boy, Duncan, liver and white. One girl, Julie, black and white.

Nine and a half weeks old. Almost house trained! Great with other dogs, children, cats, etc.

You can see their photos on my Public iDisc, and on FaceBook and Flickr.

Father full pedigree with papers, mother is obviously a full pedigree but we got her as a rescue dog so no papers. Both parents working dogs.

The stud fee was £200 and this is all we are asking for either of the pups - which is much much cheaper than others advertised locally".

So I posted.................

I would like to suggest that before anyone considers a working English Springer Spaniel as a pet, they take a look at www.itsaspringthing.co.uk.

A springer, bred from working parents will require an immense amount of time, both in the form of physical exercise and mental stimulation. The dog would not be content with being left unattended for even a few hours, and I can say with all certainty that if this were the case, you would be left with a dog that would have issues.

I have 2 springers, so I am talking from experience, and have become involved with various Springer Spaniel Rescues across the country. They rehome working springers on a very regular basis, as they have been bought by unsuspecting people who have little or no experience of working dogs, and wonder why when left for a couple of hours that they become distressed, destructive and in some cases, self harm.

My dogs are happy and well adjusted but only because of the time and effort that I put into training and exercising them.

If anyone has any questions about working springers I will be only to happy to answer them, or point you in the direction of a rescue coordinator who will be able to give you more detailed information and advice.

and Sandy, I hope you don't mind but I posted your original thread about working springers as pets.

This has led to this reply via email............

I really wish you'd contacted me first before placing those two postings on the Staff Discussion Board. It really sounds as though you are having a go at me and I'm sure that's not what you intended.

My post says 'Good homes sought' and that's what we intend to find for our pups (we've already rejected 2 hopefuls).

Just to set your mind at rest:

We've kept dogs - usually working collie or collie-crosses; or springers, for over 40 years; usually from rescue homes; etc.

Although it's kind of you to offer, we would prefer to answer any questions about working Springers ourselves and I'm sure we can give as much detailed information and advice as many rescue coordinators.

All our dogs are working dogs and live on our farm. They are in the company of humans (adults and children), horses, cats, ducks and chickens 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

We are not breeders.

The mother bitch and the pups have had top notch medical care ranging from blood -*test*-('")s and scans during pregnancy though to all the -*test*-('")s and checks after the birth that you could wish for. Vets reports are available to substantiate this.

Our Springer (the mother) does not 'go running off the minute it picks up a scent' - she's very well trained to the whistle and obeys all the usual working dog commands. I would expect any decent dog owner to aim for the same level at least.

I'd be very grateful if you could post a message on the board making it clear that your comments were meant to be general rather than directed at me in particular!


Cheers

to which I replied.....

I don't think my reply suggests that I was having a go at you. My concern is that dogs which have been bred for working could end up in totally unsuitable homes - any potential owner may think they are providing a good home, but as the evidence suggests, many working dogs are ending up in rescue through no fault of their own.

I am pleased to hear that you are vetting any potential owners as to their suitability - this was something you didn't mention in your original posting. My concerns are that people see a cute little puppy and "jump in" without first establishing what the breed is all about. My posts were merely highlighting the potential pitfalls of owning a working dog, and in particular a springer, if not kept in the right environment.

It is wonderful that your dog is so well trained, but to expect any dog owner to "aim for the same level at least", in my opinion is a little optimistic.

I have noted that you are not a breeder. Your initial post did not suggest this by way of the fact that took your dog to stud.

and then received this.........

Again, can I ask you once more to post a statement to that effect on the Board. Ideally, you might arrange for your posts to be moved to a new thread dealing with dog training/pet ownership in general. After all I started the thread to find a home for two puppies, not for any other purpose. Anyone who wants to know more should approach me, not you as you suggest in your first posting.

I wouldn't dream of commenting PUBLICALLY on any persons postings. The top of the list at the moment is someone selling a Ford Mondeo. How would it look if someone posted a long item about the dangers of buying a car from a private individual; the problems associated with Modeos in general, etc. I am sure that you would agree that the vendor would be most upset!

Please take some steps to sort this out, I would really prefer not to take this any further.

So I replied..........

In my first post I have written "I would like to suggest before anyone considers a working springer as a pet, you take a look at ....."
My post, as I see it, and others who have read it, is there to provide information to anyone who may consider purchasing a springer pup. I have not made any personal comments about you, but I do think that you could have worded your "ad" with a little more care to suggest that you are looking for suitable homes (i.e. working homes) and not just a "good home" . As I have said, I have knowledge of numerous springers who have ended up in rescue as they have been sold as a family pet but have been bred to work. This is my concern. I am sure the welfare of your animals is important to you and would not want to see them ending up in rescue because they have been bought by an uneducated owner.

This is a staff discussion board, Alan, and as far as I am aware, I am entitled to comment on any of the posts, within the rules. I have not broken any of the rules, so I won't be removing my post, nor will I move it, as I feel that it is the right place. We are talking about a living animal, and not a car. I cannot see how you can relate the two.

I will leave you to take whatever action you feel necessary.


This man is known for a rather unpleasant reputation across the campus. It seems to me that he'll hand over these puppies to whoever will pay him the money. I don't think for one minute he'll check the owners for suitability.

I've not gone too far, have I?

having just read that through, I would like to applaud you for doing what you could. If he was really concerned about what sort of home he was placing these pups in then I would of htought that the information posted would of been of benefit to him, not make him feel threatened

As the bitch is a rescue dog and therefore they have no history of her whatsoever how do they know they haven't just mated brother and sister (from different litters potentially) ummmm great load of thought gone into that responsible mating hasn't it, and perhaps he was that careful with all the medical needs of Mum and pups he of course thought of getting them both eye -*test*-('")ed and hip -*test*-('")ed before mating as well just to check they were both medically sound.

Good on you, well done.

WTG Deb I am proud of you! Springers and indeed all dogs need responsible peeps like you to stand up for their rights.

Tell him to stick his ad where the sun don't shine! You were if anything perhaps too polite!

Tests??? Did he DNA -*test*-('") for PRA, FUCO or hip score the bitch?? I bet he didn't!

No, I don't think you have gone too far at all; I think he sounds like a rude, arrogant so-and-so.

Well done for sticking to your guns!

WTG Deb

He's probably just naffed off that anyone who may have considered one of his pups, and then read the link . . . then thought twice . . .and being 9 weeks old . . . .sounds as though they were desperate to get rid of them to me.

go debbie, go debbie, go debbie

That's what I thought too! Obviously the last 2 left from the litter so dog knows where the others could have ended up!

So glad you think I've done the right thing! Have been a bit worried!

I have now declared an all out war with this man! He has no idea what he's let himself in for!

Go Debby, Go Debby, Go Debby!!!

Good for you girl, I'd have done the same!!

xx

Huge round of applause for you! WTG!

Just out of curiousity, if the mum was a rescue wouldn't she of been spayed?

Well done you!!!!

Someone at work has just got a westie and I wanted to ask if the parents where health checked etc (don't actually know much about westies) But chickened out, its too late now. So well done you for helping people and puppies getting matched correctly together.

Right reason for quote.... aren't rescue dogs spayed, neutered?

Good on you Deb!

re rescue's being spayed - it depends how old they are when rescued - for instance, Daisy isn't yet spayed as she was about 5 months when we got her. However, we have every intention of spaying her, and only haven't done so sa far a. because of vet advice to wait for first season as age wasn't certain, and b' she had kennel cough so spay had to be cancelled and no she's too close to next expected season. She will be done 3 months after that though.

Pat on the back from us here....all you've done is raise awareness in an informed manner - brilliant in my books!

WELL DONE!!!!!!!!!!

You've done a brilliant job there and we're very proud of you and for sticking with it when he's tried to bully you into changing it.


Nice one!